One serious advantage over any other system that is being dreamed up to deal with all these financial issues is that the revenue that comes from this plan is tax free. Any type of rental income or other systems we propose will be taxable. This is a serious advantage of selling the space over rental.
I guess my only issue is this: I feel like there was a bit of bait and switch. I just puchased (less than 60 days ago) an 800,000 apartment. I pay 1642 a month in maintenance fees. When I was sitting across from the board at our interview and was asked by the board- "why our building?" Then Rob,as I recall you said..."there are a lot of buildings with pools, roofdecks and the like, what is it about our building?" My husband and I answered that the biggest piece for us was space....the apartment we purchased had a ton of storage and the extra storage rooms were a big draw! We were not as interested in those other amenities..for us it was space. I HAVE to believe that you knew THEN that there was an issue. Why wasnt it brought up to us that we might have to PURCHASE the very storage space we believe we were getting just a few weeks ago?? I have had just a few days of use of the storage space I believe that I purchased as part of shares that I purchased. RE-purchasing a storage unit to the tune of a couple of thousand dollars isnt really sitting well with me.
Well #1 I did not meet with you. I do NOT meet people in the interview, so I am sure you mean someone else.
I have known for years about this situation and worked tirelessly on this is an issue.
I can see your issues with the timing of all this. The apartment you purchased has no "extra" storage assigned to it outside the apartment.
#1 you don't have to purchase anything. #2 Today you have nothing more or less than 2-3 months ago.
The rooms are almost all disorganized, no lines are drawn and nothing is assigned. I am sure you realized it was communal and is subject to change. The house rules state as much.
The issue is again not between getting it with your apartment and then having to pay for it. You have no space with your apartment at all and what you could buy as a storage room is vastly different amenity and asset.
Here's the choice:
Choice A: You will be assessed next year and at your rate something like $7,000-$8,000. Maintenance will rise 3-4%. The reserve fund is shrinking.
You have to decide if you want to pay that assessment, etc. or
Choice B: Give up communal storage and have the possibility of purchasing a room that is vastly different from communal space in terms of a) functionality b) security c) resale value and monetary gain
The reality is the rooms are incredibly inequitable and for many apartments fail to have any benefit. The bottom line is I studied the problem for over a year and come up with this plan that is the only way to give everyone a benefit in some way.
T keys,
you could have bought in a co-op and the day after you closed get whacked with an assessment that no one ever mentioned.
You bought here and are getting some choices.
You want to keep the room? Pay the $7,000 and an even higher percent of maintenance.
You want the $7,000 then vote for the plan and a) use the $7,000 for a new bathroom, or air conditioner, or furniture or b) get a chance to buy a room as an investment, you only use, you can build in, you can resell with your apartment.
Sorry to have mistaken you for someone else in the board interview. That said if this issue has been being worked on for years...wouldnt the members of the board have known? I still feel there was disclosure in that setting that could have occured, but didnt. In the end, I will figure something else to do with the few items I have stored in small space allotted to us- because the 15K + expense just wont make sense. Its not the storage...its just the princple of the thing for me. There was a chance to help us understand the situation and I just feel like at the board interview they choose to stay quiet about it.
That said my position on the storage room proposal is this- I think that we should look at any/all potential ways to improve our financial situation and certainly agree that this idea has tremendous merit. There may be other ideas that make sense as well and we should consider any viable options.
On another note- since we are new to the building, perhaps you could help us with a couple of things.
1) can you direct me to any information concerning the elevator situation? I hear things in the hallway and want to understand. When did the elevator go out? When will it be up and running? Is the current situation because the board didnt act quickly enough?
2) Is there in fact a "roof deck". Again...rumors are that there is such a thing, but that as a result of an "incident" a few years ago it was closed? Just curious...
3) What can you tell me about the reasoning behind having to go downstairs to get deliveries such as Food/Pizza/Groceries? Is there a reason why those items cant be delivered to the door of the apartment?
Thanks for helping shed light. We just discovered this blog (thanks to the flier by Felicitas oefelein #9E!!) I didnt know this existed and have enjoyed gaining understanding from the blogs posted here about the storage debate.
Thanks again for helping us to learn more about the building.
#1 As for disclosure this has been my issue for years not the boards. I don't really think you can hope that a co-op board is going to tell you this type of inner workings for many reasons but like I said they could have been on the cusp of imposing a huge assessment and not tell someone applying right at that time. On the same note they didn't tell the shareholders, so I can't really think they would tell a non-shareholder.
#2. You have NO Space alloted to you. We all own the space.
#3. Not buying a room: If the plan passes, I repeat if... it will be your choice not to pay $15k+ for a room. But maybe you will reconsider or hopefully take the savings and put it into the apartment. Either way it will be an investment and not an assessment.
#4. other ideas? I welcome them. Basic economics apply. Either raise revenue or lower expenses. It seems to me a lot of blog ink is being spent on lower expenses, i.e. the mortgage, which is really financing expenses because the rest of our expenses are somewhat beyond our control and rising, like fuel, taxes and labor. I researched and came up with this idea for raising revenues. We have a rare chance to make these rooms into a valuable asset for a large group of the shareholders, then take that money and put it back into our real estate to improve the infrastructure enhancing everyone's shares and research and fund the sale of more space.
#4 Elevator.... roof deck, etc. You ask a lot of great questions. This blog is really for the Storage Room issue. I would direct all of these issue to Matt P. @ Rose. If you feel the answer are unsatisfactory you can contact me through the doorman or we can talk via the phone. (I don't want my number posted here).
can somebody please explain to me what exactly has happened to the financial situation of the building. When we had the last annual shareholder meeting it was explained to everybody that we were in a good financial position, and that we were even going to be getting some additional revenue sources (i.e., much more rent from the 2 new tennants in the retail space).
In addition, how come there has been no official communication from the Board. All the flyers/communication seems to be coming from unoffical sources. It seems that if there truly was an issue that there would be some communication from Rose Associates or the Board of 3 Hanover Square.
Also, can somebody let me know where I can read the "proposal" for the storage space. a question that I have is how do we know what the demand would be for the purchase of the spaces? Are we sure that they would all be sold, and how would the pricing work?
Perhaps it is best to wait for releases from official sources. You are right. At last year's meeting, and currently, the building's financials are good.
What the board did was to hold a meeting to inform shareholders that, due to expenses rising at a faster than budgeted rate, and the need to perform capital improvements, maintenance increases and assessments will be needed. As far as I can tell, there is no crisis, merely a meeting to inform us of the reason for increases in the near near future. If they didn't let us know ahead of time, we'd be even more up in arms.
The storage room sale is an effort to raise money without the need for assessments.
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There is a lot of talk about taxes.
One serious advantage over any other system that is being dreamed up to deal with all these financial issues is that the revenue that comes from this plan is tax free. Any type of rental income or other systems we propose will be taxable. This is a serious advantage of selling the space over rental.
I guess my only issue is this: I feel like there was a bit of bait and switch. I just puchased (less than 60 days ago) an 800,000 apartment. I pay 1642 a month in maintenance fees. When I was sitting across from the board at our interview and was asked by the board- "why our building?" Then Rob,as I recall you said..."there are a lot of buildings with pools, roofdecks and the like, what is it about our building?" My husband and I answered that the biggest piece for us was space....the apartment we purchased had a ton of storage and the extra storage rooms were a big draw! We were not as interested in those other amenities..for us it was space. I HAVE to believe that you knew THEN that there was an issue. Why wasnt it brought up to us that we might have to PURCHASE the very storage space we believe we were getting just a few weeks ago?? I have had just a few days of use of the storage space I believe that I purchased as part of shares that I purchased. RE-purchasing a storage unit to the tune of a couple of thousand dollars isnt really sitting well with me.
Well #1 I did not meet with you. I do NOT meet people in the interview, so I am sure you mean someone else.
I have known for years about this situation and worked tirelessly on this is an issue.
I can see your issues with the timing of all this. The apartment you purchased has no "extra" storage assigned to it outside the apartment.
#1 you don't have to purchase anything. #2 Today you have nothing more or less than 2-3 months ago.
The rooms are almost all disorganized, no lines are drawn and nothing is assigned. I am sure you realized it was communal and is subject to change. The house rules state as much.
The issue is again not between getting it with your apartment and then having to pay for it. You have no space with your apartment at all and what you could buy as a storage room is vastly different amenity and asset.
Here's the choice:
Choice A: You will be assessed next year and at your rate something like $7,000-$8,000. Maintenance will rise 3-4%. The reserve fund is shrinking.
You have to decide if you want to pay that assessment, etc. or
Choice B: Give up communal storage and have the possibility of purchasing a room that is vastly different from communal space in terms of
a) functionality
b) security
c) resale value and monetary gain
The reality is the rooms are incredibly inequitable and for many apartments fail to have any benefit. The bottom line is I studied the problem for over a year and come up with this plan that is the only way to give everyone a benefit in some way.
T keys,
you could have bought in a co-op and the day after you closed get whacked with an assessment that no one ever mentioned.
You bought here and are getting some choices.
You want to keep the room? Pay the $7,000 and an even higher percent of maintenance.
You want the $7,000 then vote for the plan and
a) use the $7,000 for a new bathroom, or air conditioner, or furniture or
b) get a chance to buy a room as an investment, you only use, you can build in, you can resell with your apartment.
The choice will be up to you.
Sorry to have mistaken you for someone else in the board interview. That said if this issue has been being worked on for years...wouldnt the members of the board have known? I still feel there was disclosure in that setting that could have occured, but didnt. In the end, I will figure something else to do with the few items I have stored in small space allotted to us- because the 15K + expense just wont make sense. Its not the storage...its just the princple of the thing for me. There was a chance to help us understand the situation and I just feel like at the board interview they choose to stay quiet about it.
That said my position on the storage room proposal is this-
I think that we should look at any/all potential ways to improve our financial situation and certainly agree that this idea has tremendous merit. There may be other ideas that make sense as well and we should consider any viable options.
On another note- since we are new to the building, perhaps you could help us with a couple of things.
1) can you direct me to any information concerning the elevator situation? I hear things in the hallway and want to understand. When did the elevator go out? When will it be up and running? Is the current situation because the board didnt act quickly enough?
2) Is there in fact a "roof deck". Again...rumors are that there is such a thing, but that as a result of an "incident" a few years ago it was closed? Just curious...
3) What can you tell me about the reasoning behind having to go downstairs to get deliveries such as Food/Pizza/Groceries? Is there a reason why those items cant be delivered to the door of the apartment?
Thanks for helping shed light. We just discovered this blog (thanks to the flier by Felicitas oefelein #9E!!) I didnt know this existed and have enjoyed gaining understanding from the blogs posted here about the storage debate.
Thanks again for helping us to learn more about the building.
T keys,
#1 As for disclosure this has been my issue for years not the boards. I don't really think you can hope that a co-op board is going to tell you this type of inner workings for many reasons but like I said they could have been on the cusp of imposing a huge assessment and not tell someone applying right at that time. On the same note they didn't tell the shareholders, so I can't really think they would tell a non-shareholder.
#2. You have NO Space alloted to you. We all own the space.
#3. Not buying a room: If the plan passes, I repeat if... it will be your choice not to pay $15k+ for a room. But maybe you will reconsider or hopefully take the savings and put it into the apartment. Either way it will be an investment and not an assessment.
#4. other ideas? I welcome them. Basic economics apply. Either raise revenue or lower expenses. It seems to me a lot of blog ink is being spent on lower expenses, i.e. the mortgage, which is really financing expenses because the rest of our expenses are somewhat beyond our control and rising, like fuel, taxes and labor. I researched and came up with this idea for raising revenues. We have a rare chance to make these rooms into a valuable asset for a large group of the shareholders, then take that money and put it back into our real estate to improve the infrastructure enhancing everyone's shares and research and fund the sale of more space.
#4 Elevator.... roof deck, etc. You ask a lot of great questions. This blog is really for the Storage Room issue. I would direct all of these issue to Matt P. @ Rose. If you feel the answer are unsatisfactory you can contact me through the doorman or we can talk via the phone. (I don't want my number posted here).
can somebody please explain to me what exactly has happened to the financial situation of the building. When we had the last annual shareholder meeting it was explained to everybody that we were in a good financial position, and that we were even going to be getting some additional revenue sources (i.e., much more rent from the 2 new tennants in the retail space).
In addition, how come there has been no official communication from the Board. All the flyers/communication seems to be coming from unoffical sources. It seems that if there truly was an issue that there would be some communication from Rose Associates or the Board of 3 Hanover Square.
Also, can somebody let me know where I can read the "proposal" for the storage space. a question that I have is how do we know what the demand would be for the purchase of the spaces? Are we sure that they would all be sold, and how would the pricing work?
Any clarification is appreciated.
Thanks
Perhaps it is best to wait for releases from official sources. You are right. At last year's meeting, and currently, the building's financials are good.
What the board did was to hold a meeting to inform shareholders that, due to expenses rising at a faster than budgeted rate, and the need to perform capital improvements, maintenance increases and assessments will be needed. As far as I can tell, there is no crisis, merely a meeting to inform us of the reason for increases in the near near future. If they didn't let us know ahead of time, we'd be even more up in arms.
The storage room sale is an effort to raise money without the need for assessments.
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